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04-0911. 設計研第3回: 質疑応答

質疑応答

崎山伸夫(以下、崎山):

 大変面白い議論だったのですが、楠さんの発表や資料のなかで示唆されつつ、その後の議論のなかで話題にのぼらなかった政府の役割について考えていました。最初に応答された村上さんは経産省の方ですので、経産省的な政府の役割を提示され、その後はそれを軸に議論が進んだのですが、私が気になるのはむしろ総務省的な役割なんです。というのも政府の役割をミニマムに考えたとき、競争が成り立たないところに最小限必要な政府の役割が発生するわけです。そこで私が考えていたのは、警察の例ではなくて名前の問題なんですね。つまり名前やIDは変えられず、競争的なものではない。たとえばインターネット・ガバナンスの世界もそうです。今日の議論ではこのあたりの問題について、足の裏を触られつつ、話が逃げていってしまった印象を持ちました。

東浩紀(以下、東):

 情報社会における総務省的役割について意見を伺いたい、ということですか。

崎山:

 というよりも、ネーミング的なガバナンスというところですね。

鈴木謙介

 名前というのはつまり、選択しなおせないもの、ということですか。

崎山:

 そうです。結局そこから話が逃げて、選択できるものの設計に話が流れていってしまったと思うんです。東さんの情報社会の二層構造でいうと、上位の層の島宇宙をたくさん産み出すための設計、と言ってもいいでしょうか。

東:

 なるほど。どうでしょう、村上さん。

村上敬亮

 ICANNのケースをみる限り、僕は相当の部分を市場に出せるんじゃないかと思っています。生命・身体・安全といった話や、プロセスとして選ばれた国家権力同士が衝突する外交の話は別ですが、僕は通信規制もほとんどの部分はなしで済ませられると思うんですよ。

崎山:

 いや、通信規制の話をしているのではありません。むしろ市町村合併の例がいいかもしれない。これはまさに名前の話で混乱していて、南セントレア市のように場所によっては失敗していると思うんです。これは規制をなくせばいいという話ではない。ネーミング、言い替えると指し示すことは区別=空間を分割することである*1、という議論もあるわけですが、ネーミングのアーキテクチャや、実際の名前の割り当てというのは、人や人の集合の間に線をひいて分割統治していくという意味で、かなり基本的な権力の機能、しかも環境管理型のそれなのではないかと思うわけです。

東:

 住基ネットの話ではないのですか。

崎山:

 その話といまの話は、私のなかではいっしょなんですね。名前をめぐるガバナンスの問題として。

東:

 興味深い論点ですが、時間も限られているのでここで打ち切りとさせてください。ありがとうございました。


*1:註:たとえばスペンサー・ブラウンの「指し示しの算法」のこと。→スペンサー・ブラウン『形式の法則』(朝日出版社、1987年)、大澤真幸『行為の代数学』(青土社、増補新版 1999年 asin:4791757793)など

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